Going into Debt to buy Monero and or Gold?!

@esna7
Although Monero is a good investment in the long term, it is incredibly volatile and its not impossible for it to be trading below $300 in a year. Some people will crucify me for this opinion but its really not unheard of; you don't know what will happen.

Gold is very likely to keep its value if you hold it for a whole year, although it could lose that value in the short term (ie: next 6 months). Gold is much more volatile now than usual, in both directions, and looking bullish imo.

This is something I've thought about doing for a long time, and I've been considering the risks. Here are some of my conclusions:

It all depends what terms you can agree with the lender. You want to avoid getting liquidated at all costs. Similarly you want to avoid being forced to sell in a bear market. So you should limit the size of the debt relative to your own equity. Ie: Do not over leverage. Also consider investing in index funds. Some people will trash this idea too but don't listen to their shit; just buy and hold and in a few decades you'll thank yourself (get them onchain). Its importent to diversify as much as possible if you are investing on the margin to maximase your chances of survival. The more debt / cash obligations you have relative to your income, the more heavily you should allocate towards gold / cash.

Also, remember to rebalance your portfolio if one asset outperforms / underperforms the portfolio. My software: https://freedomthemoon.netlify.app/articles/archonledger

@esna7
Also, let me get shot down for this one!
Buy bitcoin.
It might do well even if monero doesn't.

The way the U.S. economy is structured, interest rates can never keep up with inflation without the economy crashing. So it's always good to take on debt in USD to buy assets, then pay the debt with your gains.

Gold is a good bed. Silver is a better bet. I concur with @Nebuchadnezzar_II that crypto is still pretty volatile for short term investing. If you can hodl for a decade it'll pay out, but its gonna be a bumpy ride.

@bulletbill22 Why is silver better?

I hope you realize the idea of taking on debt to gamble it away in the stock or cryptomarket is nothing new, right? Lots of retards out there engaging in margin trading and losing most of their money. Just check the wallstreetbets subreddit, if you want a glimpse into your future, if you intend on taking out loans just to buy crypto.

The only time I see this really working out is when you have inside information. For example, if you have inside information that Zcash is about to get pumped 5x, then yes, taking on debt to invest in it and dump it shortly thereafter makes sense. In most other cases, I think taking out loans to invest in crypto is just a retarded idea. The same applies to gold. Can you make more money? Yes, but you can also lose far more than your net worth and you'll be stuck paying it back.

In other words, it's only a good idea, if you intend to go full fraud, otherwise you're just going full retard. Never go full retard.

@Yuzuki
Your entire response is just calling it retarded. I think thats pretty belittling and not at all informative.

System is going into Agenda 2030, with the whole digital ID shit. I never would have thought to see the China system that i experienced all throughout my youth come to the West.

You need to ask yourself whether you will comply with the agenda. I will not.

Knowing where the economy is heading and knowing that the next time civillians will have access to proper system money will be the CBDCs, it's a no brainer.

There's no debtors prison.

Max out them credit cards and get what you can before the collapse.

@Nebuchadnezzar_II Because this is gambling, plain and simple. "Investment" needs actual, rational reasoning behind it. Distrust in the current financial system, in centralized control over money, is a real reason to put money into Bitcoin. Belief that privacy is going to matter a lot more once money becomes fully surveilled is a real reason for Monero. There's still luck involved either way, but having a case for it is what separates it from gambling.

Debt changes that completely. However solid your reasoning is, borrowing adds two risks you don't control anymore: how long you can wait (the loan has a deadline, the market doesn't care about your deadline), and how much you can lose (it's not your money anymore, it's money you owe back regardless of what happens). Be right on the fundamentals and wrong on timing, and you still lose, and the debt's still there. That's not investing, that's a leveraged bet on timing.

Also, personal opinion, for what it's worth: Bitcoin and Monero exist as a response to real, serious problems. Using them as a get-rich-quick scheme feels like it goes against what they're actually for.

@fujimoto
That's very presumptuous of you to assume that you're the first one to understand the rational reasoning behind investing in these assets.

You are right about the risks introduced by debt. But you are not right that those risks cannot be rationally managed. 1- debt ratio 2- terms of the debt 3- diversification.

My personal opinion is that making money is a serious problem. If it were so easy to live without money then sure forget about it, but in reality people need some money to free their life. No matter what the miserable masses would tell you there's not a single more serious problem than that! Maybe its not about 'wen lambo', maybe we just want self determination?

@Nebuchadnezzar_II
Never claimed to be the first one to figure this out, nothing in what I wrote said that.

Fair point on debt ratio, terms, and diversification, those do reduce the risk. They just don't remove it. Even sized down and diversified, the market still doesn't care about your repayment date. You survive the loss instead of avoiding the risk entirely. Maybe I put it too bluntly the first time.

Agreed that money is a serious problem. Where we differ is seeing borrowed money used to time the market as the way to solve it.