Crypto buying day

@Nebuchadnezzar_II Thanks for the reminder. Gonna sell stocks and buy more XMR. Just need to figure out how to do one of those pesky bank transfers. Monero is undervalued as fuck. Please show me a better chart in crypto.

and "how to buy monero?" u may ask
well, there's Haveno that is built for that as the Monero DEX to onramp/offramp
(it's a fork of Bisq, the original Bitcoin DEX)

the network for it would be "Retoswap":
https://retoswap.com/

github link for it would be:
https://github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto/releases/

there was an other network but they didnt update to the newer 1.8.0 haveno version so retoswap is currently the network for it

and while it might seems to be a lot of work to "install an app thing", that is pretty much the best option the whole cryptospace has to offer as a whole so far
Haveno/Retoswap was even namedropped by a popular twatter user with alot of followers, as can be seen from that thread:
https://monero.forum/thread/haveno-network-retoswap-not-affected-current-bisq-1-security-issue-thumbup

installing the app shouldnt be the hard part
the part that most people are apprehending is "setting up the account thing"
but is pretty much just going in the menus, filling up the necessary information for payment options then browsing the active trades and taking or making an offer
the first step is the always the harder step, but once this is setup and a first trade has been completed, all the other trades afterward do go very smoothly as it would be setup for them already

"cash by mail" would be the prefered option, but for the ones having access to bank accounts and so on, this is also supported by the app, alongside other payments methods like paypal, venmo and the likes, cash by mail the best tho
which there's a guide from a trusted cash-by-mail provider going a bit more in-depth regarding that over there:
https://arnoldnakamura.codeberg.page/cash-by-mail/

@GamingResearchLab Never heard of this - thanks for sharing. Just wondering: Why not use Bisq v1 directly though? They natively support XMR.

@Stylus1063
Haha what's a bank transfer?
Here's a chart that might be better: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-hashrate.html#alltime

@GamingResearchLab
Yes bro this is the way.
We need more cash by mail that is the way too.

@Geek

Why not use Bisq v1 directly though? They natively support XMR.

Bisq v1 is xmr <-> btc and btc <-> fiat, but not xmr <-> fiat for on/offramp

so while both platforms do seem to natively route traffic through onion routing
the base cryptocoin on Bisq is still transparent Bitcoin on a traceable blockchain, instead of Monero as a base, which is what Haveno does

also back in 2025, Retoswap was seeing great growth that it even overtook Bisq v1 in daily volume, as can be seen historically from there:
https://monero.observer/gr8ful4-7/

14 Apr 2025
We're currently seeing RetoSwap overtaking Bisq by trade volume

unfortunately vulnerabilities on both platforms happened this year in 2026, that's unfortunate
some people lost funds but regarding haveno at least, retoswap confirmed that the last exploited vulnerability ended up only on loss of funds for the gamblers on the market (doing the xmr <-> other cryptocoins)
and no loss of funds happened on the fiat side apparently
it has been fixed since, that's what the v1.8.0 version was about
but that's also a good reminder that, more eyes on the code and more contributors to these projects that do matter would always be nice, similar to P2Pool or even Monero itself there tbh

@Nebuchadnezzar_II

We need more cash by mail that is the way too.

facts
for gambling on the market, there's other platforms for that anyways, instant swap exchanges, atomic swaps...
but fiat trades yea, cash by mail is just the way tbh
while even bank transfers are supported on Haveno and can be very fast (few minutes), fuck the banking system as a whole tbh lol

there was once a time, Bitcoin could have been seen as "a threat to the banking system", not now tho... it has lost the plot there and can now be considered fully part of the legacy financial system it once was meant to fight
Monero however is currently the one that took over on being that 😈

@GamingResearchLab What makes you so pessimistic about bitcoin? I thought it was the new gold?

@Nebuchadnezzar_II
wdym pessimistic? in what sense?
bitcoin never was meant to be "digital gold", it was meant to be "digital cash"
that's the plot that has been lost

and even then, gold is somewhat "fungible" (can be melted into a brand new gold bar thing)
while bitcoin is the original NFT, is not fungible

there is currently no usecase to bitcoin aside from just speculating on the price and hodling
they tried to come up with 2nd layer solutions for scaling such as "lightning network", but there is no adoption on that
when checking on every merchants that accepting the cryptocoins, lightning network is just not used while monero been overtaking bitcoin completely in so many of these already (shopinbit, coincards, nano-gpt or whatever)

bitcoin is still stuck on it's outdated technology that was meant to keep evolving...
for example when hal finney did a twatter post about looking into adding more anonymity to bitcoin:
https://nitter.net/halfin/status/1136749815

unfortunately that never happened for bitcoin itself
the cryptonote whitepaper is what came out few years later from that time tho, which was what the scamcoin "bytecoin" was based on, which is where monero tech came from...

bitcoin is now just fully under corporate interest and is fully integrated within the legacy financial system it was meant to fight (centralized exchanges, fully KYC'd ecosystem etc etc)
it's not fighting shits against none of that nowadays

it's like the band Rage Against the Machine that became Rage on Behalf of the Machine
that's the same for bitcoin, it's not a threat to it anymore, it's part of the problem

it seems monero been slowly heading torward there as well tho...
might not be too late yet tho, and corporate wannabes in the monero ecosystem have to be called out for what they are before it's too late for monero as well

@GamingResearchLab
Sorry I meant doubtful of bitcoin's bullcase, not pessimistic.

I take your point about bitcoin, but I disagree because 'digital gold' is a perfectly good use case and with its unmatched hash power, only bitcoin can fulfill this role.

Fungibility is an interesting problem, but I am not convinced its fatal. Let me know if you find any tainted bitcoin on the cheap!

So a wallet-anon could use xmr to buy bitcoin, keep it in cold storage, and interact with the network over tor, cycling it through xmr on occasion for hygiene. What's captured about that??? Its not that everybody will be doing this, but rather there will always be people doing this because its simply one of the smartest things you can do.

@Nebuchadnezzar_II
tbf u did have the moonboy tag on the thread...

Sorry I meant doubtful of bitcoin's bullcase, not pessimistic.

yea i just dont care either way, number going up or not, literally dont care, not doubtul or not not doubtful, just dont care lol

I take your point about bitcoin, but I disagree because 'digital gold' is a perfectly good use case and with its unmatched hash power, only bitcoin can fulfill this role.

u remember what happened with qubic on monero tho?
it's pretty much what's expected to happen for bitcoin eventually, but naturally
because block reward getting lower and lower
fees getting taken off-chain through 2nd layer solutions
and expecting miners to get rewarded only from fees, while the bitcoin on its layer 1 now would be "digital gold" instead of "digital cash"
then that means less transactions happening on layer 1, less actual rewards to miners
because the usecase would be to "hodl" and not to "transact"

and literally, every halving got people telling me "it just halved but bitcoin still alive, you was wrong!!" like nah, i saying, few more halving WHEN the mining rewards will be less than the transaction fees included in the block
so... it'll take awhile still, that's not "next halving btc ded" or what, that's "few more halvings then security issues will be a thing"

Fungibility is an interesting problem, but I am not convinced its fatal. Let me know if you find any tainted bitcoin on the cheap!

you thinking too much like a moonboy, that's the issue
it's not about "some btc are worth more and some btc are worth less"
it's about "btc can be blocked and censored"
https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/
which most people using the bitcoin have lost the plot too, they're using centralized exchanges, not running their nodes, not even mining...

it's the corporate coin that is fully traceable, literal wet dream for any government to track their citizens, they're more than happy to just work with centralized exchanges than to regulate or whatever the bitcoin nowadays u know

recently that article was posted as well, regarding tether:
https://www.analyticsinsight.net/news/crypto-news-today-tether-blacklists-tron-wallet-holding-72m-after-large-cross-chain-transfers
in the case of bitcoin, frozen funds would make numbers go up, but i guess yall moonboys lost the plot already so yall would be cheering for that anyways cause numbers go up is all that matter apparently

So a wallet-anon could use xmr to buy bitcoin, keep it in cold storage, and interact with the network over tor, cycling it through xmr on occasion for hygiene. What's captured about that??? Its not that everybody will be doing this, but rather there will always be people doing this because its simply one of the smartest things you can do.

yea i guess
either way, back then was doing the whole signing bitcoin transactions manually from the cli and whatnot
but cause didnt care back then
nowadays i just dont have the technical knowledge on how to even use bitcoin, it's way over my paygrade

and while am not the most tech savvy already, most people are even less tech savvy that "bitcoin" nowadays just means "coinbase and binance"
like, sure, it could work for you i guess, doesnt change the fact it has been co-opted at a way bigger scale and it's just not the money of the people, it's the blackrock's ETF money, it's the governments and centralized exchanges money
so i literally have no interest about that, at all