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Monero with optional privacy (frame it as optional transparency, if you prefer) is just zcash.
The reason that Monero works as a privacy coin while zcash fails is that zcash made deliberate design decisions that erode fungibility between "private" and "transparent" coins. Monero, with view-keys, is making that same decision, just without the deliberation.
Addendum: Suggestions for coins with mandatory privacy?
You cannot continually monitor the balances, expenditures, and receipts of wallets using the existing features.
Why does this hypothetical Monero-ending boogeyman draw the line in the sand in asking for key images? It knows exactly which outputs to request key images for, and can apparently control everything you do... Why doesn't it ask for key images? What is so magical in this hypothetical threat model about key images? Please enlighten me.
OVKs are useful for fetching key image information without interaction, which is what makes the UX for cold wallets and multisig wallets so much better. But this boogeyman operates with interaction (it asks all users for IVKs), then monitors them. And apparently everyone in this scenario also never makes a new wallet, so what exactly is preventing the boogyman from asking for key images?
This does nothing to address that the erosion of fungibility between private and transparent coins will lead to private coins being nonfunctional. You will not be able to use Monero to privately pay for goods and services.
Incorrect. Please lookup information about the FCMP++ upgrade. This whole hullabaloo is a non-issue for people who don't willingly give up their private key material.
Re: dual clean/unclean fungability issues. I doubt that a split in price comes between "clean" and "unclean" units of a by-default private asset. Source: cash. Technically, you can trace cash because the bills have serial numbers on them. From a technical standpoint, you could trace every transaction that the serial number has been seen in under a centralized registry. You could even refuse to accept bills with serial numbers which are not "clean", as determined by some set of arbitrary tracking rules. But no one uses cash this way, and no merchants enforce anything like this. Differentiating between "clean" and "unclean" histories on Monero would be even harder if even a single hop in a coin's history didn't adhere to the tracking program. Monero coins do not have serial numbers attached to them. When you receive a 1 XMR e-note under FCMP++, if not every single tx input for that e-note, and each of the creating tx's inputs are proved, recursively, then the entire history of that coin is erased irrevocably. I mean, people can try to maintain a dual "clean"/"unclean" system, but I think that it would be pretty leaky in practice.
@jeffro256 well I suppose we'll have to see what happens.
The key difference really is that OVK facilitates tracking a pool of compliant wallets without ongoing interaction between tracking and tracked.
I really really don't understand the ux argument you make for OVK though. You only have to scan a couple of qr codes to sync your cold wallet, which is a basic workflow of cold storage anyway.
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I think its pretty clear at this point you're acting in bad faith, but for anyone who actually wants to know, I'll address your opposition.
Why does this hypothetical Monero-ending boogeyman draw the line in the sand in asking for key images?
It doesn't. You really ought to just use Bitcoin, there's simply no need for Monero I guess. Any suggestion that someone could want to control the money, well that's just a boogyman.
It knows exactly which outputs to request key images for, and can apparently control everything you do...
It can't control everything. It can't get your private keys, for example. It can very easily get your view keys, through coercion.
Why doesn't it ask for key images?
The current implimentation is essentially nonfunctional. See @GamingResearchLab 's post for example.
What is so magical in this hypothetical threat model about key images?
Nothing magical. The new implimentation of view-keys introduces an attack that was not present before.
Please enlighten me.
You don't have ears to hear.
OVKs are useful for fetching key image information without interaction, which is what makes the UX for cold wallets and multisig wallets so much better.
And is also the feature that allows this new, very obvious and patently inevitable, attack.
But this boogeyman operates with interaction (it asks all users for IVKs), then monitors them.
Yes, it does something with the new implimentation that was not possible with the old implimentation.
And apparently everyone in this scenario also never makes a new wallet
Many do. The vast majority of users (speculators and low-information users) don't.
so what exactly is preventing the boogyman from asking for key images?
The current implimentation does not allow the attack that is proposed with the new implimentation.
Incorrect. Please lookup information about the FCMP++ upgrade. This whole hullabaloo is a non-issue for people who don't willingly give up their private key material.
Yoh clearly don't understand the threat, or the tech. It is IMPOSSSIBLE to develop privacy coin that, when an adversary has access to enough information about users wallets, can maintain privacy. When view-keys povide the functionality that the new view keys provide, it is inevitable that a multitrillion dollar organization with a record of trying to squash alternative currencies will use them as an attack vector.
I mean, people can try to maintain a dual "clean"/"unclean" system, but I think that it would be pretty leaky in practice.
They have trillions of dollars, multigigawatt datacenters, millions of employees, and the law. They are not going to have a problem.
@xmr_is_goated
from experience, people addressing the semantics/spellings instead of the actual issue are the retards that only resort to that cause their lack of proper understanding of the tech or whatever
understanding the spelling of words makes them feel smarter somehow
but my tinfoil theory is @bulletbill22 = @xmr_is_goated anyways so, congratz on psyoping the actual retards that cant think for themselves :thumbup:
(not tryna doxx or whatever, this is just tinfoil theory, literally dont mind me lol)
😂
His retardation isn't worth responding to. Good luck to people who fall for his bullshit.
Anyone causing infighting derailing with personal conflicts can be assumed a fed or bad actor. Not disagreement but toxic behavior and shit. If people care about Monero they can be agreeable even when disagreeing but not call names and engage respectfully.
